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ft Pll't llala & ol&adardo, t.ntC 1o ,\~.oe~, •tto

to wbe1 41ee , etc.


- u o a ot • Cono1AIIn.\1oa obollld be &1. _ to tho ot Airp ort All\l lorit 7 tar tbo - u..J.t.od r.uoa~

11ti" 1 aad opon .U... OIJ't ala lirp ortl pn11 •• U.O .. litb il opoo ll>to!'D1\10Ml pro bl_ , woll



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founa bb

letter 01 Uuv . L5>th h .i \.n hla on t.U"

~v1at.1on COnfCt'I,.UUU I.A.IUI t.hC r't\1:~1-

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IIEKOIWIDtDC FOR 'l'HE PRDIDJ:II'l' I baY& prepared a aeoo...,dllll vhioh U attached hereto ..tt1ng forth to the but of .;t reoolleot1on the eul>etanoe ot rour remark& on aY1&t1on pol107 at the aeet1ng on Vedne•da7 • NoYember 10 .

I hope that the •en•e h&e

been ta1thtUll7 rendered.


Adolt A, Berle, Jr,

lnoloeurel Mnorand\111





The Prttldent; the Under Secret&rJ ot StattJ Mr. A. J..

Berle, Jr . 1 Aaaiatant Secretary ot State; Mr. Rober t A. Lovett, Aaa1a t ant ~torttary ot War tor Air; Mr. L. Welch Poaue, Chairman, Ci vil Atronautiot Board; Mr. Barry Hopkina.


S, U, IN , RA, EO, FE, PA/D, PA/LD, PA/H, Nll, PA/11.

!ht Preeidont requested the t1ve ..n abovt·na.ed



h1a at 2:00 o•clock ,-eaterda,-.

He ata£•4 that he had begun to diacuaa av1at1on polior w1 tb Prl"" llinloter c;buroblll at Que boo aru1

he expected to go on Ho had oontidered the


ao at their coming coot1ng.


problema ot policy and

Wiahtd to t tatt t ho pol1e1 he wanted followed.


i n& tr011 a m.-orandum which he taJ.d he had biJuelt p:re-

pared, though he took the po1nta out ot order, he gave ua the following oral d1rect1vea. (l) O o -, Ital.7 aru\ Japan wore not to

be per3dtte4 to have any aY1at1on 1nduatr, or


- 2&n1 artatlon linea, intom&l oro external. lnvolv~


polleina thoae countrWa.

!heir external


would bt handled by

the linea or the other count riea.

Internal avia-

tion could be handled by a cotl'lpanr or co.zspan1et to be tormod. by the Uh1 ted ltat1ona.

7ht part1c1pat1on

or rot·mor enoa.y couotrioa (Germany, Italy, end. Japan)

in aviation was to be limi ted to the oa1nten&noe ot a1rt1elrte , local aorv1c1nG work, and detail ot that ldn4 .

Aa tor rtytng, er..o Prolident aa1c1 that h e did. not want t,.l,o:. to be ln • pod tion to .. n7

an1th1ns: larger t4la.n cne of'


tor pl&Dta

that you wind up with an elaattc•.

(2) At to aTiation in other countr1ea:


Prtaldtnt felt that each country thould have ownerahip and control ttrvico~ .

or ita

own internal aviation

He rooognited there might bt txooptlons

in baokward countrlea unable to organlct aviation t~emaelvee .

out Brazil, whi ch he took •• An illus -

tration, waa quite aviation.



run ita own


He did not wiab .Americana to own or control

their internal aviation; nor did he wiah them to ~r1clln

._.r1oao or other foreign


their internal aYiatton.

He hac! no objaction, 1ndoocl

aa ..naa•r• or

ho hoped that they would biro AUric an ind1 Yic!ualo , and of oouroo he hoped thoy would buy American eQuipmont.

But he wanted tho internal aviation to be tho

dovolcpmant of tho country 1toolf. ( 3) Regarding tha handling of Nllor1oan a v1at1on, he otated that ho had doc1clod that


over•••• aviation should not be handled by a a1ngle line.

The scope ot international. aviation waa too

groat to be truoted to


one coapan)' or pool.

He oa1d that certain coapan1oo Pan .&aerican -- wanted all or the bua1neae, an4

he d1oagree4 wi tb Trippe.

1ft wao willing to agree

that on their record, Pan .-er1can ••• entitled to the • anlor place, and porhapa


cream of the

buo1neoo; but he could not go along with tho 1doa

ot thei r, or &n)'ono 1 o, haYing oll ot 1t. Tbio meant a mult1-ooap&n)' oporat1cc. Ho oa1d he ot111 Colt to a r - t on tho oubjoct

thQU&h ho woo open that tho plan he

had outllne4 to llr. Pogue and to m;r..l t two yoaro ago,


various companie• havtns "aone••, at1ll

appealed to him;

t huo thoro might bo a company for tho

... ••


the weatern a1c1o or South ._.rica, another oOIIIp&n.' hav1nj5 tho outern o1do, one ooapany h av1"15 tha North Atlantic; another, the Mediterranean; and

ao forth .



to a quattlon ot D-ob Lovett' a,

ho oa14 that thoro lllil;ht be a ohitt ot equipment

trom one group to another aa 1eaaona required thia . I oo1d I thought

Mr. Poguo'o 1doa

of compot1t1vo

torlninalo by the eompet1toro dro1n1ns cUttoront t1oldJI ot traffic probably could bo harmon1ud w1 t.h th11 general 1doa.

Tho Prea14ant a&14 that

ho agrood that hio 1doa would have to bo a ppllod tlox1blr. (4) Resordin& the


of Oovornment

part1o1pat1on in the linoa, he aaid there


open the questi on of o.nerehlp b7 tho Oovornmant

ot an 1ntoreet in tho varioua linea contemplated undor th1o pol1oy,

But ho aa1d he thousht thoro

wae no need ot auch ownorahip un4or the propoaed plan, except aa tho

Govornman~ l'!dE:)\t

have to own,

1n1t1allJ, U naa goiDB to placaa tnWhich the

tratt1e could not support



Thio would

be cov ered by hia idea that the Uovarnx.nt ahould run auch linea until pr1•ate enterprlae waa pre-

part4 to take o•er. (6) 'l'ho

(5) Tbe Proaldont than opoko ot aubaidloa. Ho aaid in general be thought the traffic could be made to pay ita own wa7 except in connection

with certain routoa on which the tratttc wao not enough to make tho line a paying proposition . Again using the 1lluatration ot the united States to 3outb Africa, he aaid thoro would have to bo a line to South Arrtca, but it probabl1 would not

be a paying propoaltlon.

He theretore wtahed that

we wouJ.c! apply the ,...,. policy which he had workod out for odpplng linea after the last war, nt.mel7: to have the united Statoa Government uoe ito planes and ito men to run government linea -- but alway• on the unde>;ahndlng that it over a privata line


••• prepared to bid tor the rout e, the Ooverncent

would prozptly rotiro from the buo1nosa. (6) Aa to air an
Proeidont said that he wanted a very tree interohange . plAnea

That is, ha wantsd arrangements by which


one country could enter any other country

tor tho purpoao ot ci.iach&rgins trattlo ot toroign origin, and accepting torolgn bound tratt1o,


it Canada wentod a line t:ro10 Canada to J..-J.oa, with

- 6-

with otopo il'l tho Unitocl Stateo at "uttalo aocl 111ua1, tho7 ohould bo able to 41achorgo tr&l'tio ot t;anaclian

or1gl.n at duttalo, an4 tako on tro.ttio at Buttalo tor Jamaica; but they ohoulcl not bo allowed to carry trom Buff&lo to Miami .

He conaidered that each country would h&ve

a. nu.mber ... in the Un1 ted. State• a qu.tte large numDer · - or airports available tor eucb foreign tr&l't1c, In add1 tion to that, ho thought plan eo ohould h aYO ganoral l'ight of tl'oo tranoi t and right ot toohn1cal atop -- 1a, tho right to land at

any field and set ruel and aervtce, without,

boweYer, t&k1ng on or d1aeharg1ng trattio. TJU.a, he poi,n ted out, wo\ll4 diapo•• ot an7

need tor a United Nation• authority to manage a1rt1oldo.

Tho Preeident aaid that there m1ght,


roaain o.1rt1elclo in reopoct ot whiob tho trattio

1taelt would not pay the


or upkeep.


for 1natance, 1111s,ht have to D&int&1n a t1eld. tor the pu.rpoae ot a line between the

~ tK


anc1 South A.t"r1ca; but there would not be bueineea enough to "''leo 1t a paying propoa1tlon,



thoro IOl.gllt han to bo llhlhd llat1ono cOI'ltributiona, or arranaea.6Dta mgbt bo.v•

tho linoo





lliOd tho fiold to pay • part or

the ooat.

(7) In onawor to a quoat1on from Lovett, the Proaidont said that ho thought thoro obould bo no general party or contereneo about aviation until

tho t1mo wao risht to call a United Nationa contoronco.

Talka wi th Britain and othor countrioa

could be handled qlliotly ao a part or tho propara-

torr d.lacusaion. (8) The President cono1dorod that thoro would have to be a United Nationa conterence on aviation

and probably a United Nat1one orean1&&t1on to handle auch matt•r• aa safety


aignala, communi·

oation, weather reporting , and the incidental eervicea which went with airporte; and alao to handle the problem of competitive auba1d1ea or

ratea. ~o

1t;pon41ng rotu.rn or Soerotary ll\lll troa tho

Moaoow c onference •••


announced, and we broke up.


A•.a.. B., Jr. A-BI ,UJII LJL i l'o:!'





HOU8·~ \J , \ _. \1 .~/



February 18, 1Y44·

ro yo\1 want. to send a aeaoru.ndu.o. or c.e tt.le;Jhone t.o ChalrMn ?oc\le to ttl! hia fO\& o.•r t!e With thi~ IUC,t:•t1on about. the Russb.ns be inc reprt~acnted at

thil air confercr.ceJ and thbt you have sent. ~ oet1orLLnciu.:n to tluat etfeet to ~
~.0.1 .





FEB 1 6 1944



'nle Preaideat


L. Welch Pegae, Chai.-z>


Propoeed d1aclllla1ona on international aviation

Laat week I • • preeet while llr. Berle d1acueeed with the Aviation Subc...Uttee (Smator Clark o! lliaaouri, lllainDan) o! the C011111erea COIIIDittee o! the Seuate the propoeed diacuaeiona 011 international a via tiOD with the Br1 t1ah. Senator Beiler, QlainDan o! the C011111erce ec...ittee, alid that the winning o! the war ie hia prillle concern and that he lool

.l.lao teobm.oal _ , tri up.



.t.ttaira an4 em Int'er-

oa- ot -r1oan

ot Pan ...-r1oan.



.t.ttaohecl, 4ratt aaand!.


suH;Tsmrn•o c AY 61 12 I.



&lr Navigation and Air Transport 1.

The right ot tranait and technical atop (atop tor non-traffic reaaona) tor civil aircratt, aubjeot to needed regulation tor aecurit7.


The right of commercial air entr,..


Granting or international operating rights on a non-exclusive baaia.

Application of cabotage to air traffic.


Control of ratea and competitive practicea.


Curtailment of aubaidiea and exchange of aubaid7 data.


Uniform operating and aafet7 atandarda.


Standardization or coordination of air navigation aida and commUnications facilities.

Airports and Faci4}tiea 1.

Designation of commercial airport• of entr,..


Uae of airport• and facilities on a nondiacrim1nator7 baaia.


Airports and facilities in isolated areaa. , '

International Collaboration 1.

Eatabliahment of an international civil aviation commlaaion, and definition of ita tunotiona.


Preparations and agenda tor a United Nations conrerence. '


&4?,. u."~/·~~ J·'-'"'


hna let the

~ovie t s

F. li . R.






?>r ~,..,_1... H. 1911Q of lllllUplo -Uoa of peroou • pp4 111 olr c-rco &114 of u o.plo7or1, Ia or 41r to 4nolop rooo•oD41tlol lo to pr l'r•t tile crovtll of 11111011114 tu pollclll atfootID& ohll avlaUoll, 1&, It lntro4GCII IIWIIr0\&1 lllproYUIDU Ill tile a4alnlotN\IY I proeoduro \11141r till Chil .t.oroll&u\lco Act. 16, H prond11 for otroactllelllllc a114 111P"1141JIC t ho Voathor lluroau """leo Ill aid of our air II&YI... Uoa both t!GMoUo &114 lllto.,.Uoll&l , 1?. H eo41t111 olnl-aviattol l law b7 llrlaclac llolate4 locl ollltho provlol olll l11to tile Clnl Aoro~autloo Act, 19. It provl4eo for tho aoro offlclaat oottlo•ont of dloputeo inYOlvlac air earrloro ll7 41roctlac tho Civil Aoro~~&utloo Co•looloa to oot up a proeol:rma4 14 St&t• l'Clet. turet to .&>pt ..._,lo\\.1 lav-a rtlat1o to priYIQt loadt ao.d. • ..•ur•tn tt ot 110tor trueJu. 'lhey are ca.ret\11 •4 ln brine· •uccte4 r $ctuall hove tbey Tbut . unltor. ~e1nc tbote lave • outt and. c&rT,Yh tt"UClc 110t.or a Mrtb)v oc IH\IAU ltpl a lac abrou\ \bt or-coo bolt • MhHn Cllltor nia aod Vlaa.b1acc.oa bet \0 ac.op at v Ub the loa4 bord..n, UD.loa.d. u4 baYI uotbtr t.)'pt ot truck proceed o . . r backw.M ln Ot'lcon. Vba\ tbe Supreat Court bat clone la to lean oarrltr t or 1A· in p e,.tt.t.t ac S\att lava to apply. even to lnt.treta t.a there 1• a tqUAr•. cl~&r contl1o t. betweta \ere~tt buatnea e Supra• Co\a\ tbt State repl&.U oa. eM ••• ft4tral rtCQlaU oa. !be r eplatlo a, bat aa14 that it Coq:re1 1 baa zoot probUIH 14 the State rt to baYI \be court• vtll DOt. la.terft re, ~bat l t vbl lt ia aeeetta otbor vor4e , In loa. lechlat> v1aHoa a chU la tion prohibi a 4etiatu appl7 to oat nplatl te4.nal tbat. provide to lt l e ' t "-Oloi.Ch • 11111'17 ao:! to ..,- that State aU air ~rc.e; U l a MCUI& f'J' to r•eul•t. lont ea~t ~ applied .





- caret\lllt ntralu .,,.. tU


of eeau.rUS.•• b7 alr C&l"rlere.


a ltat.a law rfC'llaUac nob woal4 DO\ be 1•· coatlltODt wUb tbl tooleral law. .._h. U II Ukoll' tbat It a lt.a\e touch\ to nculat• tM hiU&DOI of eecvlUee tbti• law would M eu&al»4l ualMI \M" 11 a prolalblUoa a,alaa\ l&ah r~tloa lacla4M la tba tooleral law. Allotbor - l o II tba •ttar ot tcllooll&lM. fbo fMOJ'al law 4o•• aot npl&ta acWil111. V. Dow U•t. la w.rlou Stat••· 1\ate Co.t.ulou IOMUMI 4o replatl \M .oMc.&lH of w.rtou. trpel of carriere. 1A the oa11 ot alr oarrlere. ua1111 ta a f.Ural

law wbtch problbltl l&atl rteul&lloa, l\a\1 recala\loa of acb.tule• voul4 pro'baltl7 be a.t.alaa4 aa aot 'belAC laoouhteet wUb tM h.Wral law.

n. rallJ'O&d.e ban l.aqere ud otbere laUr11hd. 111 tUlr . .1tare lD '""7 •144lteu Yill.a,. &ad. toa. "l'be alr carriere ban no 1\lCh wideepread.. aad wU-eoboolN •tol>b7hh•. ~r caa tbe air carrier•


t o . . tch the reeouzc11, flDaDcial and otberwi11,

Binet, 1t tbl raUroa4• eMk: crlppUnc State l t c1•latloo atfect inc a i r oarrltrt, •• th., bATt been to tuccttttul ln do~ ia. tbe catt of aotor carrltrt, tbt air carriere art bo\lM to 00111 off tecoa.d. bet\, 'I'M air carrlort can auch better prouct tbh.ttlYtt Sf \ be whole ... uer ot replaUoa. h • b a tiUral -uer. J'or tMo tbl7 ca.o concentrate tbelr retou.rc•• oo flchtlnc to protect theaeelY~t 1a. oa.e tpot -- i.e. Concr••• -wtth 10.1 cbaDCI of IUCCIII.

ot the ra11roa4e.

fbll:re 1a &DO'-ber r . . ton tor tavbac eaclualft fe4e:ral lechla· Uon. It tntraat.ate atr co•erce h lett up to tbe State, the St.a\11
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